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Diskussion:Ukrainere

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[rediger kildetekst]

Can we get a discussion and a concensus on the ongoing edit war on this article? Please refrain from editing the info box until this has been resolved. REgards Knud Winckelmann (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 15:47 (CEST)

Fotogallery of famouse people of folk it isn`t new for wikipedia, It is traditional aspect for folk articles in many wikilanguages:

@Madglad:@Yasnodark: As I told you several times on your discussionpage I don't agree with you that pictures smaler than a stamp has encyclopedical value. And to insert a buntch of pictures where even the names are spelled wrong just gives no sense. As I can see we are more people of the same oppinion, so maybe you start listening. What ever it is common on other wikipedias or not just don't interest me. I gues they one day will be wiser on the other wikipedias and delete such galleries. Wikipedia is not a picture book, the people who uses wikipedia expect to find serious content, not pictures where you should use magnifying glass to see what it shows! mvh Per (PerV) (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 16:12 (CEST)

Unfortunately, but it, that you say, smacks mixed of authoritarianism, bureaucracy and limited view of things. If said the founder of soviet economic geography Nikolaj Baransij: "must be able to think in continents".
The presence of images does encyclopedias less serious. Go, please, any printed encyclopedia - was full of pictures of famous people. Іn all famouse Ukrainian and Russian encyclopedias usually present on each page of photos of persons. Does the Danish encyclopedias is not it?.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15 jun 2016, 16:49 (CEST)
And more that Wikipedia is a popular encyclopedia, designed to promote knowledge among ordinary people and not just a few thousand academics. Her goal is to instill a desire among ordinary citizens to obtain information from Wikipedia, not from pulp press, youtube and facebook, which apparently you are striving for, lowering the interesting and informative Wikipedia..--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15 jun 2016, 16:49 (CEST)
The point @Yasnodark: is that some pictures is good for the article, a large gallery of pictures squished together in a tiny format is NOT valuable for the article, as the article grows longer, and mentions more famous ukrainians, you can place appropriate pictures on one side in the area of the text that speaks of the person. That is how you place pictures in articles, as it is now, the article warrants 1-3 pictures no more, these people should of course be chosen with care. Best regards Vrenak (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 16:51 (CEST)
VrenakI believe that you are not right. The Danish Wikipedia reader has the right to see in one place the prominent representatives of the people to understand that he is of himself. It does not harm the article, but on the contrary increases interest in it. With best regards. --Yasnodark (diskussion) 15 jun 2016, 17:09 (CEST)
A huge gallery of squished images doesn't provide any relevant information to anyone, if you wish you could create an Liste over berømte ukrainere type article with an image and a snippet of information about each with links to the relevant articles, but it most certainly does not belong on Ukrainere. -- Vrenak (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:21 (CEST)

@Yasnodark: Thank you for the characteristic "authoritarianism, bureaucracy and limited view of things", that is rewally friendly of you, I think I will have to ask you to use proper language in the discussion. But maybe you mean all contributers on da wiki suffor from authoritarianism, bureaucracy and limited view of things, sice we follow strickt rooles not to overload the artickles with pictures. Let us then be happy sufforing from authoritarianism, bureaucracy and limited view of things. At least the pictures you have put in is not even a joke, it spoils the artickle. mvh Per (PerV) (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:00 (CEST)

I would like to know what?.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15 jun 2016, 17:18 (CEST)
With all I didn't spoke, it was a response to a specific phrase. But at the same time I thank you for your supplements article.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15 jun 2016, 17:18 (CEST)
I would suggest @Yasnodark:, since he feels so strongly about images, propose 3 images to be included in the article of people who really helped define what it means to be ukrainian today? be it a mideavel king, a poet from the 1800s, or a 20th century politician, that's not important, but it should be someone who is a deely rooted figure in ukranian identity. please post them in the discussion and tell us why you think these help define what it means to be ukranian.-- Vrenak (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:09 (CEST)
I'm afraid, it is extremely small - from many thousands great Ukrainian people - only three person?--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15 jun 2016, 17:18 (CEST)
Yes, I'm quite serious think it over and choose 3 that really means something about what it is to be ukrainian. I wouldn't find it easy to just choose 3 danes either, but a few select images does a LOT more to tell people about ukrainians than 60 pictures lumped together, less is more. -- Vrenak (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:25 (CEST)
It`s discrimination, because for Englændere - 21 person. And Ukraine is 5 times more than England.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:28 (CEST)
It's not discrimination, and Ukraine doesn't have 5 times the population of the UK, and due to the fact that Ukraine was under russian rule for a long time lots of Ukrainians didn't get the chance to flourish and influence the world, that is just a fact, not discrimination. If you don't want to choose a few select relevant images, I suppose the article can remina pictureless forever. -- Vrenak (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:31 (CEST)
UK is not England. That you said is only part of the truth. But prominent Ukrainians a huge amount. Unfortunately, many of them are not as hyped as the English. But this does not diminish their merit. Here are some of them.

Dear @Yasnodark: Do you get totally blind in your ukrainian heaven? There is aproximately 100 millions Englændere worldwide and there is 45 million Ukrainere worldwide, so the number of ukrainians worldwide is less than half of englændere. And when it comes to danskere you are also wrong, there lives 5,6 millions in Denmark, if I cout worldwide like you like to do we end on plus some 2 millions, as far as I can calculate 45 divided with 7,6 it gives barely 6 times the number of danish compared to the number of ukrainians. Stop your chauvinistic propaganda here it wont help you a bit. mvh Per (PerV) (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:57 (CEST)

I was talking about the size of England and Ukraine, 132 and 604 square km .--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:48 (CEST)
Many millions ukrainians was russificated or murdered, in 1917 - Population of now territory of Ukraine was 38,8 mln people - 8-9 place of all now countries. More 32 mln Ukrainians in past Ukraine. And 8 mln Ukrainians in etnic Ukainians lands and in diaspora. 7 place of all nation of 1917 year.
But good 7 and 45 now identificated, 6 * 8= 48, never 3, I am proposed 30. Not 48.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:48 (CEST)
But good 7 and 45 now, 6 * 8= 48, never 3, I am proposed 30. Not 48.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:48 (CEST)
A list of 40 names of prominent ukranians here is not useful at all, I asked you to think it over and select 3 ukrainians that is part of ukranian identity, let me exemplify, if for danes, I might propose: King Christian 4. he reigned for a long time and his ups and downs did transform the country in many ways. H.C. Andersen the famous fairytale authoer (and more) is a deeply rooted part of danish culture, and his works speaks volumes about what it is to be danish to this day. And finally Thorvald Stauning danish PM during a time of national crisis, after the financial crisis in the 30's, and also PM during part of WWII, a key figure in the founding of the modern danish state. I could easily go on like this mentioning 50 more famous influential people, or 100, or 500. -- Vrenak (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 18:04 (CEST)
Vrenak 16, all right?--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:48 (CEST)
mvh Per (PerV) it is only propozition.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:48 (CEST)
No, 3, as it is now the article doesn't warrant more than 3 pictures tops. You can work to expand the article so it can warrant more pictures, but wikipedia is not a childrens picturebook, it is an encyclopedia. pick 3, or pick none, in which case it will stay pictureless indefinitely. And post them in the discussion and tell us why the ones you choose should be put in the article, don't just link to an article about them. Vrenak (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 18:39 (CEST)

@Yasnodark: NO 16 is NOT all right, the pictures are deleted. As Vrenak said PICK THREE. End of storry, if you once more insert the pictures before we agreed I will ask an administrator to block you on da wiki. Now I have just spend enough time on your f...... pictures. mvh Per (PerV) (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 18:41 (CEST)

It`s discrimination, because for Englændere - 21 person and for Danskere - 8 person. for Danskere Ukrainere

only - 3.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 18:48 (CEST) -- below moved to preserve timeline --

Among Ukrainian many outstanding personalities - the pioneers and champions in the world and Ukrainian scale: Yaroslav - creator of the first set of laws in Europe and many dynastic houses in Europe, Princess Olga and Anne of Kiev - the first woman - the ruler in Europe, Philip Orlik - author of the first constitution in the world, Eupraxia Mstislavovna - the first female surgeon in Europe, Bogdan Khmelnitsky - creator of the first modern public education called Daniel Galitsky - man, saved Europe from the Mongol invasion. Yuri Drohobych - the first diagnostic plague - the death of the disease for millions, and the author of the heliocentric concept of peace among Europeans, pershopechatnik, Ilya Mechnikov - the first Ukrainian Nobel laureate - the author of the doctrine of phagocytosis, Galshki Gulevichivna Peter's Tomb - the creators of the first educational institutions in Ukraine, Mikhail Maksimovich - the author of the theory of evolution, Basil Karazin - the initiator of the creation of a network of meteorological stations in Europe, Nicholas Strazhesko - pershodiagnost myocardial infarction in the world - the death of the disease for millions of Ivan the bullet - the discoverer of X-rays and neonivskogo radiation, Vladimir Dal and Boris Grinchenko - the creators of the first dictionaries in Ukrainian . language, Yuri Crow - the first transplant in the world, Mykola Lobachevsky and Mykola Hulak - creators neevliklidovoi geometry, Joseph Timchenko - cinema creator, Yuri Kondratyuk and Sergei Korolev - the pioneers of cosmonautics, Igor Sikorsky - helicopter maker, Mykola Maclay - author race equality theory , George Gamow - author of the Big Bang theory and the concept of the genetic code, etc., Ivan Verhratsky - author of the first Ukrainian-language textbooks, Krushelnytska and Dmitry Bartnyanskiy- world famous singers Nikolai Leontovich - author of the popular Christmas hit, Maxim Berezovsky - the only Ukrainian in the Hall of world music fame Marco Vovchok and Milena Rudnitskaya - the pioneers of the women's movement in Ukraine, Pavel Popovich - the first Ukrainian and the first opera spyvak in space, Yuri Lisyansky - the first Ukrainian captain who traveled around the world, Michael Hrushevsky - the creator bagatomnoi history of Ukraine and the first speaker, Levko Lukyanenko - author Deklatsii Independence and the state created by Ukraine, Leonid Kravchuk - the man who made it possible, first President of Ukraine, Vladimir Vernadsky - originator of the doctrine of the noosphere, geochemistry and biochemistry, and the first president of the AUAS Alexander Leipunsky - the first scientist who was able to achieve the splitting of atomic nuclei by artificially accelerated particles, a pioneer of nuclear physics, Eugene Paton - a pioneer of modern mistobuduvannnya, Panteleimon Kulish - the creator of the modern Ukrainian language, Danilo Zabolotny - the creator of the world of epidemiology, who saved the world from the plague and cholera, Stepan Tymoshenko - the creator of the theory elasticity and osnovopolozhdnik modern mechanics, Nikolai Pirogov - a pioneer of disinfection for surgical operations, Stepan Rudnicki - creator of Ukrainian geography, first outlined in detail the ethnic borders of Ukraine, Andy Warhol - a pioneer of the new fine arts, Vladimir Kubiyovich and Mykola Bazhana - the creators of the first Ukrainian-language multi-volume encyclopedias, Larissa Latynina - record holder in the number of medals among women in the Olympic Games, Michael Volobuev - author of the concept of independent development of Ukraine, Vasily Suhamlinsky and Anton Makarenko - the pioneers of modern pedagogy, Victor Glushkov - the pioneer of computer technology, the creator of cybernetics, Anton Dumanskiy - one of the founders of colloid chemistry jack Palance and Sergei Bondarchuk - the first Ukrainians - winners of the "Oscar" as an actor and filmmaker, Ruslana - the first Eurovision winner, Paul Virsky and Gregory rope - the creators of the legendary dance group and choir, Pavel Skoropadsky, that for the year increased the territory of Ukraine without ZUNR 650 thous. km2 and opened the first Ukrainian-language universities and academies of science, Mykola Skrypnyk that returned the Ukrainian identity and tried to attach to all ethnic Ukrainian lands. --Yasnodark (Talk) 19:31, 21 March 2016 (MSK)
And for Danskere - 8 person. And Ukrainians is 12 times more than Danish people.--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:28 (CEST)--Yasnodark (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 17:48 (CEST)
-- above moved to preserve timeline --

I think you misunderstand what wikipedia is. At least da wiki is not the place for national liberation struggle if you cant accept how we do things on da wiki, you are free to leave. Here we concentrate on delivering serious facts, not ridiculous pictures where there is not even an artickle connected to. Your discussion is only noise, so hereby I will not participate in your noise anymore. But I will gurantee you if you once more put the pictures in without us, here in this discussion, agrees, you will be blocked. mvh Per (PerV) (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 19:00 (CEST)

@Yasnodark: For the last time: post 3 pictures in this discussion thread of 3 prominent ukrainians, and list the reasons, in 3 lines or less why they should be featured in the article. Do NOT list 4 or more persons, do NOT compare with other countries, do NOT put anything in the article until at least 2 danish wikipedia users have agreed to your choices. If you post anything other than that here I am going to have to recommend to have you banned from the danish wikipedia, you are creating a disruption, and are wasting too much of our time. I look forward to your choices (and nothing else!). -- Vrenak (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 19:03 (CEST)

@Yasnodark: As I can see you even made a crosswiki spam her, I will emidiately ask for bann of you here on da wiki. It is not ok you waste our time anymore. mvh Per (PerV) (diskussion) 15. jun 2016, 19:55 (CEST)

mvh Per (PerV) is not a crosswiki spam, in any wikipedias - other wikipedian standarts &, please don`t peeve. In each language section of Wikipedia's different opinions about the images, do not threaten the bann. The picture you identified after removal I have never restored, moreover when you pointed out that my draft of the article should private significant portion of the images I removed, so there is no reason to lock it. At the same time, I don't understand the different attitudes of different Nations, this action wears and individual traits of chauvinism, in which you so often wrongly accuse me of.

But it seems to be based on the opinion of the Danish users have no choice but to agree with Vrenak for the three photos in the article itself. --Yasnodark (diskussion) 16. jun 2016, 14:32 (CEST)

I included to the article select three images, as suggested by Vrenak or I need to discuss it on this page?--Yasnodark (diskussion) 16. jun 2016, 14:32 (CEST)
Vrenak At the same time, I hope you will not mind if the full version of the galleries will be presented on this page, so that anyone with a strong desire reader could understand what is actually talking about. What is a bone of contention and the subject of conversation. --Yasnodark (diskussion) 16. jun 2016, 14:32 (CEST)-

@Vrenak:@Yasnodark: My simple goal is to ban Yasnodark, and I have posted a request to the admins on da wiki to fulfill that wish. This request is now supported by a handfull of active contributers on da wiki. So you either leave willingly, or you will be banned. If the admins don't ban you, I will raise the discussion on the villagepump, to make sure you will be banned.

Leave gently or be banned. I said end of discussion yesterday. And now it's really end of talk!!!! mvh Per (PerV) (diskussion) 16. jun 2016, 15:46 (CEST)

mvh Per (PerV)I don`t understand, why remove, you talked about the 3 photos? I fulfilled only your conditions, on which bank may be involved@Vrenak: please explain what it. Maybe something I do not understand. I added exactly as number photos as you said,--Yasnodark (diskussion) 16. jun 2016, 15:32 (CEST)

@Yasnodark: As you have shown you can't be trusted to make good edits, you were requested to post pictures in the discussion, listing why these should be included in the article, you were told repeatedly not to edit the article. You show blatant disregard for any kind of request and direction, this is also why several users wants you banned, you are wasting far too much time of people here, and contributing nothing of value. Vrenak (diskussion) 16. jun 2016, 16:55 (CEST)

About pictures and ukrainians

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I have put a neutral picture in to illustrate ukrainians (taken from russian wiki!). I think it will suit well as an illustration.

I fully support articles about ukrainians on Danish wiki. Putting in a lot of them is not good. Do not worry: we will write about famous ukranians, but it will take some time. In this way all will benefit from our work here. I think this discussion should end here. It will be better if in future we can cooperate on finding links and information than an "edit war". best regards Rmir2 (diskussion) 16. jun 2016, 16:50 (CEST)

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